As per the intro for this thread should the church have more of an active role in politics?  Just what is to be the influince of the church in the world today? Are we to be more vocal in the political arena or not?

Uh oh here I go. LOL

I believe that when the Contitution was written and the words "seperation of church and state" were penned it was to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state.

Christians need to stand up and be counted as we are becoming the silent weak (in the minds of politicians) minority that will not stand to fight.

We are losing our rights by the fistful and we need to stand or we will lose them all.  Of course the day is coming when that will just be the way it is according to revelations.

Good topic LA thanks

If that is the way it will be then why try?  That does not make very much sence, if there is nothing we can do then why try.  Why not just try and get as many saved as we can and forget what is going on in the world?

Yes, there is the separation of church and state, for the sole reason that the founders did not want a "State Church", and that I agree with.

Yes, we need to be more political, but, alot of Christians are not interested in politics.  Because the squeaky wheel gets the grease, as we have seen when abortion rights were granted, prayer taken out of public schools, etc.

One thing that we are seeing now, is that Christians are taking a more interest in politics as gay marriage rights as bills were voted against it in California and even here in Ohio.  When Christians start putting on the pressure, things start happening.

Yes, we still need the separation of Church and State, for our freedom to live for our religious beliefs, but, we can take a stand so that our politicians vote for good and moral laws.

We both know thats the wrong approach.  We are Kings, and Priests.  Means we have a place in leadership in and out of the Church.  We need to stand up and be accounted for.  Plain and simple.

What do you mean that it is the wrong approach??  We are not a theocracy, but a democracy.  I would not want a theocracy govt. in place here in the U.S.  Because our chances of being the dominant religion would be very slim.

I am in favor of people voting on controversial issues, instead of it being voted on by the Supreme Court.  It seems that everything that is anti-Christian is voted by a few and is passed into law by the Supreme Court.  It is time that things are voted on by the majority instead of the minority.

I am really not sure what you are trying to say.

A theocracy : a group of people that claim a deity as there ruler, (with priest) there is more to this definition but this is the part that we recocnize. 

I contend we are a theocracy.  The differance is our kingdom can work inside of any poititical government that arises.  I won't at this time give scripture referances but Jesus is our king right now  If we claim him as our king when we are saved then we are part of a theocracy.

In refreance to Br Ginders statement, I know that is not the right atitude.  But again I have to ask why should we try to make a differance if it won't change things in the end?  If as you say the (ant-christ) satan will gain power for a time what differance will our voice make in the overal scheme of things?  Why not just try and win as many to God as we can and then wait for the comming of the Lord?

Just a thought to ponder and understand I am setting you all up for a point of veiw that I have but I think that this can get interesting and fun if you will bear with me.

In the early church from my readings we know that the early church suffered persecution at the hands of Rome. Now understand Rome was normaly tolerant to all differant religions so why were they so against early christians?

What if that is not the way it will be.  What if Revelations has already been fullfiled and God has given us the power and authority to change the world?  Just think about that for a while before you say I am all wet behind the ears so to say lol 

I mean realy just for a minuet set aside the idea of a future anti-christ for a minuet, and let your mind go thru all the scriptures of the victory that God has given his Kingdom.  That satan was defeated by the cross and ask yourself Why can't we effect our world today  like the children of Isreal did in the Babalonian captivity?  a few caused a change in the king for the better to the point that he even decreed for them to go back and rebuilt there city and temple. 

Im not a preterist and I do not embrace that mindset at all.  Not syaing thats what you may have been suggesting but there maybe someone who embraces that and I want to stand clear on it as it could have been interp that way in my humble opinion.

I believe that the Word of God says that the gates of N/A shall not prevail against the Church.  That means, the Church will win.  The real question is who will remain in the Church.  Thats what I was hinting at.  To prevail clearly means there is a fight.  They will deny our rights they are doing it now.  Hence my point the Church needs to stand up and take her rightful place as Kings AND Priests.  Not just in the Church do we have a voice.  We were also named as Kings, hence allowing us to have a voice outside the Church as well.

Many have allowed the "state" to push them into a corner and tell them to be quiet and play nicely.  The Bible says to be angry and sin not.  I for one and angry and wont be silenced by any "state" official and will continue to preach the Gospel, and against the things that God has called an abomination.

I will also stand in my place of business as an honest, caring, loving man who is a man of integrity and keeps his word.  Being a witness in all manner of conversations means in our walk of life.  Everything we do and say is how that phrase was meant when penned down.

Anyway, I know we win.  I know we have the authority and the power to overcome and be more than overcomers, the problem is to many believe that meek means tosit sdown and be still and cause no controversy,

By the way, a Theocracy is the best form of Government.  Since there is only 1 true God then there can only be one true Theocracy.  Monarchy is the next best form of Government.  Just for the record though we are not a Democracy anylonger.  We lost being a democracy when the electoral delegates took form.  Now its not about the popular vote any longer its about the electoral college. 

Wow, sorry to get long winded again.

We need to pray and mean God Bless America she needs it.

I was never suggesting we cant make a change in our world.  I said that the book says we will lose rights and we can see that coming to a head even as we speak.  They have removed God from so much already and they are trying ot take him out of more.

We can make a diffrence, we shall make a diffrence.  Just h ow many will make the diffrence.  If we each make a decision to make a diffrence in the corner of the world we live in we will make a larger impact.

God is bigger than any force, power, principalitiy, government, disease, or anything you can think of or imagine.  Nop I know we can. the problem is few will.