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Total Views: 1688 - Total Replies: 23




POSTED BY: Claire22 on 03/29/2009 06:09:52


I know what Preterism is as my spouse is one (and he is Apostolic)........but, I am not.  Preterism is mainly about the 2nd coming of Christ and that it has already happened.  Believe me, I was heavily being tried to be converted to this belief, but, I find too many flaws.............I believe that Christ's coming is still in the future.  There are too many verses in the Bible that support it.

Anyway, this is not the place to discuss Preterism.  If you believe...............fine...........I don't.  And I know alot about the subject, and I probably know more about it than most Pentecostals.

Back to the subject at hand.  Bro. G., you are right and you are wrong about "democracy".  Granted, we are not a pure democracy, as there would be no laws or regulations.  But, we are a "representative democracy"  as we are able to vote for our leaders.  Is it perfect?  No, but, it is the best system in the world.

Would I want a theocracy?  No.  Why?  Because, most theocracies go by the religion of the person in charge, and that is why our forefathers came to America in order to have freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

Yes, Israel had a theocracy, and believe me.............it did not work most of the time...........as Israel backslid quite a bit.  And chaos reigned in the land.  As for me............I am grateful to serve God as I please, and not have to worry about the law of the land ready to place me in prison or worse.






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POSTED BY: BroGinder on 03/29/2009 06:29:16


Hang on its on the way





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The rich are not those who have the most. They are the ones who need the least.
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POSTED BY: laromans12 on 03/29/2009 07:19:32


Preterism is more difined than you may think Claire there is full P. partial P. two name the two main ideas of thought I just wanted to put that out their.  As for discusing preterism that is not my intent.  I will say this though I do not believe in the dispinsational theory either.  I don't see God giving any prophecy that did not come to pass within the time aloted.  With that thought I cannot see how Daniels seventy weeks could not have been fullfiled at the time of Christ.

Now please leave that as it is as you said this may not be the place to discouse that. 

As for a theocracy my understanding does not aline with yours Israel did not have a true theocracy, they turned away from that at mnt sinai when God came down and tried to speak to all the people.  They told Moses that they did not want to hear from God themselves but for Moses to speak to God and then pass the word down to them and they would obey.  This is not a theocracy.  "A theocracy is where a group claims leadeship to a deity."  That is the deity speaks to the people individualy or as a group.  Not thru a man.  This is the beauty of a a true Christianity it does not matter what form of government one can worship God and be a beleiver.  God does not need a church building or organization to reach people.  We limit ourselves and God by thinking every thing must be in a church. 

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POSTED BY: laromans12 on 03/29/2009 08:49:18


Back on the subject

Bro Ginder Again you have said what we should be doing but not why in the face of the world coming under satanic rule.  would it not be better to reach as many as we can will it is still day and let the rest of the world go along as it will?  Think for a minuet though, if we have the power over satan, if when Christ died and rose again he said he had the keys to death N/A and the grave.  Implying that he at that time had gotten power over satan.  Therefore what would happen if we did what we should and affected our world, Christianity is far stronger than we imagine.  Regardless of the differences Christianity as a whole beleive in high morals, and things that are right.  So my question is if the Christian community were to affect our world and I beleive we can why would we expect satan to come in and take control. 

Maybe we are reading the simboligy of the book of Revelation is being missinterpreted.  

An example that can easly be checked out, in Korea during the Olympic Games, when riots broke out the government called the leading Christian leader of Korea to ask him to pray.  This pastor then had his saints pray for the peace in the games. and within 24 hours the riots stopped.  We have seen the postive influance in other countrys of Christianity.  I beleive the fact that we have religious freedom in the free countrys is because of the effect of Christianity.   

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POSTED BY: BroGinder on 03/29/2009 19:53:21


If we do not prepare the Church for what is about to come against her, she will not be prepared.  In such she will be overwhelmed.

I so agree that God is greater than any force that will come against him.  I also know the Word of God says the gates of N/A shall not prevail against the Church that is built upon the rock of Jesus Christ.

If all that is ever taught is the sprinkles, rainbows and butterflies of Christianity then how do the saints prepare for the storms of life.  Many are preventable by pure teaching.

I have read the back of the book and Jesus is victorious.  I get that.  Thre is still a battle that rages on.  We can win everyone of them to a degree.  There are however, battles that to fulfill God's Will, will appear to be a loss.

The responsibility of the Church IS indeed to make the greatest impact it can in the time it has left here.

I have always believed that preaching was enough to bring someone to salvation, but teaching gives them the power to remain saved.

We must teach them.  We teach about Heaven, and hell.  That only indicates some will go there, well according to the Word, many will go there. 

We are obligated to teach a FULLNESS of truth. That includes all things.

JMHO

God Bless





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POSTED BY: laromans12 on 03/29/2009 21:30:45



BroGinder wrote:

If we do not prepare the Church for what is about to come against her, she will not be prepared.  In such she will be overwhelmed.

Prepare the church for what can come against her we shall all suffer persicution

I so agree that God is greater than any force that will come against him.  I also know the Word of God says the gates of N/A shall not prevail against the Church that is built upon the rock of Jesus Christ.

Ya now get that verse in our heart if the church is built on the rock nothing can come against her.  God is not going to go against his word.  As long as the church is built upon the rock.

If all that is ever taught is the sprinkles, rainbows and butterflies of Christianity then how do the saints prepare for the storms of life.  Many are preventable by pure teaching.

Again this goes without saying but lets teach pure teaching telling someone that even if the world was 75% christian God is still going to come and bring judgment on the world and let satan seem to win for 3 1/2 years does not compute. Either Gods word is true and the gates of N/A shall not prevail or God is a lier. 

I have read the back of the book and Jesus is victorious.  I get that.  Thre is still a battle that rages on.  We can win everyone of them to a degree.  There are however, battles that to fulfill God's Will, will appear to be a loss.

I refuse to beleive we can not win all of them.  If Gods word says we can we can.  And what will of God are you refering to?  That will appear to be a loss.

The responsibility of the Church IS indeed to make the greatest impact it can in the time it has left here.

Now keep preaching that When I beleive the dispinsationalist veiw I was taught the church would be taken out of the world anyway. 

I have always believed that preaching was enough to bring someone to salvation, but teaching gives them the power to remain saved.

Exactaly how can they hear without a preacher. But preachers must go far beyond just preaching they are part of the 5 fold ministry given to the church for the equiping of the saints so they can go out and do the work of their ministry.

We must teach them.  We teach about Heaven, and hell.  That only indicates some will go there, well according to the Word, many will go there. 

Yes many will go to N/A but how many is intirely on how good of a witness we are is our life a living apisole, is our conversation (the way we live our life) going to make someone want to come to God?  Does the holy ghost shine through us so that the world can see Jesus in us.  If not then all the preaching won't do a bit of good.  Jesus did not say in the book of Acts you shall be preachers of me, He said you shall be witness of me in all the world.  Big diferance our life is to draw them then we can tell them about Christ.   

We are obligated to teach a FULLNESS of truth. That includes all things.

And finally what do you mean by FULLNESS OF TRUTH?  And where do you quote that from scripture.  Jesus said preach the gospel of the kingdom to the world.  Jesus told the diciples that if you did not understand that he was in the father and the father was in him then at least beleive in him for the works that he does.  HMMM  The world needs the Gospel they need to come to know God as we do, they need to get the holy ghost then they need some equipment so they can grow in God. The responsiblity of the ministry is not give them arule book they have that "the word of God" we are to give them tools so they can learn to hear the voice of God.  We need to start treating our saints like we do students in A.C.E. christian schools give them the basic understanding and teach them to find the the voice of God forthemselves. 

Laromans12 Truth will prevail

JMHO

God Bless

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POSTED BY: BroGinder on 03/30/2009 16:40:02



laromans12 wrote:


BroGinder wrote:

If we do not prepare the Church for what is about to come against her, she will not be prepared.  In such she will be overwhelmed.

Prepare the church for what can come against her we shall all suffer persicution

Exactly my point.  When soldiers go into IRaq, and Afghanistan they are trained and they know how to do combat against the things that will come at them and how.  We need to prepare the ARMY of God in the same wise.

I so agree that God is greater than any force that will come against him.  I also know the Word of God says the gates of N/A shall not prevail against the Church that is built upon the rock of Jesus Christ.

Ya now get that verse in our heart if the church is built on the rock nothing can come against her.  God is not going to go against his word.  As long as the church is built upon the rock.

The word prevail means to overpower.  That just means that the gates of N/A will not win.  It doesn not mean there is not going to be a battle agains tthe Church.  They need to be prepared for the persecution.  They need to know what has been said is coming.

If all that is ever taught is the sprinkles, rainbows and butterflies of Christianity then how do the saints prepare for the storms of life.  Many are preventable by pure teaching.

Again this goes without saying but lets teach pure teaching telling someone that even if the world was 75% christian God is still going to come and bring judgment on the world and let satan seem to win for 3 1/2 years does not compute. Either Gods word is true and the gates of N/A shall not prevail or God is a lier. 

So we sit by idle and let those who are unarmed and ignorant to the fight perish?  What part of there is a battle we will be engaged in does not compute.  Just because the Church doesnt lose does not mean we wont have some casualities along the way.  I am trying to do what God is leading me to do.  To prepare an army for battle.  To teach them how to weild the armor and the weapons he has supplied.

I have read the back of the book and Jesus is victorious.  I get that.  Thre is still a battle that rages on.  We can win everyone of them to a degree.  There are however, battles that to fulfill God's Will, will appear to be a loss.

I refuse to beleive we can not win all of them.  If Gods word says we can we can.  And what will of God are you refering to?  That will appear to be a loss.

Well if it happens your way then the Word of God is a liar.  His Word says many are called and few are chosen.  Why are few chosen, because their failure to be obedient to God. The gates of N/A have bene enlarged to hold all that wil lbe there that were not intended to be there.  We can not win them all.  Although we are to pick and chose.  So we have to try but the facts are we wont.  Its called reality, and truth as the Word of God says it.  But with that said I want to ensure that people understand we do not have the right to decide who we try for.  We need to try to bring them all to be saved , but not be discouraged when some do not respond.

The responsibility of the Church IS indeed to make the greatest impact it can in the time it has left here.

Now keep preaching that When I beleive the dispinsationalist veiw I was taught the church would be taken out of the world anyway. 

I have always believed that preaching was enough to bring someone to salvation, but teaching gives them the power to remain saved.

Exactaly how can they hear without a preacher. But preachers must go far beyond just preaching they are part of the 5 fold ministry given to the church for the equiping of the saints so they can go out and do the work of their ministry.

We must teach them.  We teach about Heaven, and hell.  That only indicates some will go there, well according to the Word, many will go there. 

Yes many will go to N/A but how many is intirely on how good of a witness we are is our life a living apisole, is our conversation (the way we live our life) going to make someone want to come to God?  Does the holy ghost shine through us so that the world can see Jesus in us.  If not then all the preaching won't do a bit of good.  Jesus did not say in the book of Acts you shall be preachers of me, He said you shall be witness of me in all the world.  Big diferance our life is to draw them then we can tell them about Christ.   

Im clearly on board with that and really what I have been saying in the whole conversation.  LOL

We are obligated to teach a FULLNESS of truth. That includes all things.

And finally what do you mean by FULLNESS OF TRUTH?  And where do you quote that from scripture.  Jesus said preach the gospel of the kingdom to the world.  Jesus told the diciples that if you did not understand that he was in the father and the father was in him then at least beleive in him for the works that he does.  HMMM  The world needs the Gospel they need to come to know God as we do, they need to get the holy ghost then they need some equipment so they can grow in God. The responsiblity of the ministry is not give them arule book they have that "the word of God" we are to give them tools so they can learn to hear the voice of God.  We need to start treating our saints like we do students in A.C.E. christian schools give them the basic understanding and teach them to find the the voice of God forthemselves. 

Yes the world needs the Gospel.  The Word of God says come as you are.  Ther eis not one place in His Word that says stay as you are.  Preaching to the world is indeed about drawing people, to a place whereby they desire to have what we have.  It is why we are called the salt of the earth.  Salt preserves, and adds flavor.  We are to make the Word palletable and create a thirst for more of Gods wonderfulness in their lives.  But the messgae does not stop at the Gospel.  The messge continues on.  We must change to be like him.  

Laromans12 Truth will prevail

Truth will always prevail, and we must preach the fulness of truth.  What might that be you asked.  The unwatered down Word of God.  From Genesis to Revelations.  Uncompromised, and unwatered down as many are doing with it today.

JMHO

God Bless





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POSTED BY: laromans12 on 03/30/2009 18:23:53


Aw right Bro

that was good I know we are on the same page to a certain degree now, Sorry is it seemed I was a little testy. As I just read down the last quote I could see that I might have been a little sharp in my response I will work on that. 

I see we do agree in the principles of the kingdom of God.  What I have found because I have been around to differant ways of teaching as a child in differant churches.  I have in the last 5 years gone to churches of other denominations even.  And truely tried the spirits and listened to the preaching, and have found that they haave not stopped teaching the word but have change the way they aproach outside holiness.  And in some areas the preach a stronger word than holiness churches do.

As for end time as I see it that is an area that must be agreed upon to disagree It does not realy matter I don't see it as a salvational issue. But it is a area that I like to discuse because sometimes that is the onlyway to prove what is trueth is to put if up against other teachings to see how it stands.   When some get so dogatic about a doctrine that they turn people away before they have a chanace to learn just because it was presented in the wrong light something is wrong.

Well I am leaning on being long wonded agian LOL so I better back out and get ready for work.

God Bless

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POSTED BY: Rockin4Jesus on 04/15/2009 06:45:41



BroGinder wrote:

Uh oh here I go. LOL

I believe that when the Contitution was written and the words "seperation of church and state" were penned it was to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state.

Christians need to stand up and be counted as we are becoming the silent weak (in the minds of politicians) minority that will not stand to fight.

We are losing our rights by the fistful and we need to stand or we will lose them all.  Of course the day is coming when that will just be the way it is according to revelations.

Good topic LA thanks

Okay...here I go! **Please remember I'm 16 and don't know everything, so if I get something wrong...just let me down gently...

First of all, the constitution never states "seperation of church and state".

In 8th grade my teacher told me to find it in the constitution and I looked and looked. Never found it. I did find one thing that SEEMED somewhat similar (I don't remember what it was now), but it was really my mind just trying to get an A and I was freaking out because I couldn't find it. I was VERY embarrassed when my teacher told me that it wasn't in there! BUT I saw for myself it wasn't in there!!

Secondly, my OPINION only....

I think the church needs to stand up for their beliefs...BUT I don't think it is right for a preacher to stand up and say to the congregation something like: "If you think Obama is not the anti-Christ, you're going to *a not so pretty place*" I think that is wrong. But the church standing up for what we believe? Making sure our religious rights are not being taken away? I think that's okay.

Raquel--REMEMBER...the 16 year old.... *small voice: don't yell*





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